Some part of me thinks "wow, you're invented the auto-router." Another part of me thinks "If this works I won't be able to afford it, and there will be no point in routing boards by hand–which I really enjoy."
More generally, where does this all end? Sure, one can argue art for art's sake should only be made by people. However, I consider good engineering to be a functional art and an incredibly creative pursuit in many instances. Will much of this pursuit go to the wayside because at the end of the day what really matters is if something works well?
I wasn't aware that the prevailing feeling of layout is 'pain'; I always found it to be the most enjoyable bit! But I suppose that in order to raise VC money it *must* be framed as painful. Sigh.
It's interesting to see these AI-powered PCB EDA tools popping up (Flux AI being another example). I'm always curious how well they handle RF designs. Has anyone had experience using these tools for RF applications? What were your findings? While I'm sure our PCB workflows will evolve, I share the sentiment that layout can be one of the most enjoyable parts – almost like 'dot-to-dot.' For me, tools that enhance the design process are key. Especially in low-volume RF design, I see the biggest opportunities in areas like component selection and substitutions, addressing supply chain issues, and efficient footprint creation/validation.
I learned modern PCB design from Tape-up designs in the mid-1980s…
There isn't schooling in the design process as far as I know;
And the problem young people have with it is
There are usually no notes in a schematic to suggest a proper, successful layout (except for power hazards and safety features).
I know more than most, I guess, because I grew up with HAM radio, tube and power designs, and learned about the world envisioning it as an RF environment. I learned about antennas and wave propagation, and restored a popular five-tube radio.
There were a couple of nice software packages in the early 1990s that were too expensive for my personal budget and only a few 'beginners with a corporate budget' would get to use them.
As FPGA scale designs came on the scene, designing a layout became very tedious!
My first FPGA was on an eight-layer board when most previous designs worked well with four layers.
I spent considerable time on many calculations to make sure a 500MHz USB port was done properly!
More recent shopping choices were Altium and Cadence; I was going to buy or borrow a Cadence package as I thought it might be familiar because ORCAD-X is derived from the package I used from 1986 to 2011. And I still have a complete IVEX Designer toolset-which is a good copy of the ORCAD SDT code package.
My first impression of the Cadence package is, that the changes from ORCAD to a Contemporary design tool is that they seem to have solved the problem; in that you don't need to learn the art of design! The work now involves filling out pages of forms with all the specifications of the various devices and their characteristics…and then you get to Push The Button and then the layout is done for you!
Well, to say 'the thrill is gone' is an understatement…my pleasure from completing a complex design has been removed so that 'anyone can do it.' I am guessing that just like 'self-driving' cars, there will be problems here and there and the 'designers' will be clueless- they have no idea how to fix the problem.
To a lesser extent, experience will still be needed for the last 1% of the fabrication of successful PCB designs- or errors are acceptable to some level and no one will know or care about what was missed…
I see some self-worth fading there, but I grew up in the days of 'pride of ownership' and all that professional crafty nonsense. As an RF-guy and PCB-designer, I have usually had some value to a company, but not much anymore; as it's seldom the exciting part of the product manufacturing effort.
However-This newer design package seems interesting, I'll have to check it out!
Some part of me thinks "wow, you're invented the auto-router." Another part of me thinks "If this works I won't be able to afford it, and there will be no point in routing boards by hand–which I really enjoy."
More generally, where does this all end? Sure, one can argue art for art's sake should only be made by people. However, I consider good engineering to be a functional art and an incredibly creative pursuit in many instances. Will much of this pursuit go to the wayside because at the end of the day what really matters is if something works well?
I wasn't aware that the prevailing feeling of layout is 'pain'; I always found it to be the most enjoyable bit! But I suppose that in order to raise VC money it *must* be framed as painful. Sigh.
I love doing PCB layouts. I guess one could always (use AI to, ha) design a video game that simulates it 🙁
It's interesting to see these AI-powered PCB EDA tools popping up (Flux AI being another example). I'm always curious how well they handle RF designs. Has anyone had experience using these tools for RF applications? What were your findings? While I'm sure our PCB workflows will evolve, I share the sentiment that layout can be one of the most enjoyable parts – almost like 'dot-to-dot.' For me, tools that enhance the design process are key. Especially in low-volume RF design, I see the biggest opportunities in areas like component selection and substitutions, addressing supply chain issues, and efficient footprint creation/validation.
I learned modern PCB design from Tape-up designs in the mid-1980s…
There isn't schooling in the design process as far as I know;
And the problem young people have with it is
There are usually no notes in a schematic to suggest a proper, successful layout (except for power hazards and safety features).
I know more than most, I guess, because I grew up with HAM radio, tube and power designs, and learned about the world envisioning it as an RF environment. I learned about antennas and wave propagation, and restored a popular five-tube radio.
There were a couple of nice software packages in the early 1990s that were too expensive for my personal budget and only a few 'beginners with a corporate budget' would get to use them.
As FPGA scale designs came on the scene, designing a layout became very tedious!
My first FPGA was on an eight-layer board when most previous designs worked well with four layers.
I spent considerable time on many calculations to make sure a 500MHz USB port was done properly!
More recent shopping choices were Altium and Cadence; I was going to buy or borrow a Cadence package as I thought it might be familiar because ORCAD-X is derived from the package I used from 1986 to 2011. And I still have a complete IVEX Designer toolset-which is a good copy of the ORCAD SDT code package.
My first impression of the Cadence package is, that the changes from ORCAD to a Contemporary design tool is that they seem to have solved the problem; in that you don't need to learn the art of design! The work now involves filling out pages of forms with all the specifications of the various devices and their characteristics…and then you get to Push The Button and then the layout is done for you!
Well, to say 'the thrill is gone' is an understatement…my pleasure from completing a complex design has been removed so that 'anyone can do it.' I am guessing that just like 'self-driving' cars, there will be problems here and there and the 'designers' will be clueless- they have no idea how to fix the problem.
To a lesser extent, experience will still be needed for the last 1% of the fabrication of successful PCB designs- or errors are acceptable to some level and no one will know or care about what was missed…
I see some self-worth fading there, but I grew up in the days of 'pride of ownership' and all that professional crafty nonsense. As an RF-guy and PCB-designer, I have usually had some value to a company, but not much anymore; as it's seldom the exciting part of the product manufacturing effort.
However-This newer design package seems interesting, I'll have to check it out!